Re: Best And Worst Mothers In Film
Posted: May 15th, 2023, 11:03 am
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https://www.silverscreenoasis.com/oasis3/viewtopic.php?t=7627
I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.
Yes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 2:03 pmI'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.
I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.Belle wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 6:34 pmYes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 2:03 pmI'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.
Are you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 6:40 pmI haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.Belle wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 6:34 pmYes, because mothers' duties are to protect their children from any and all threats and Lolita's mother didn't. She's worse in Nabokov's novel!!jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 2:03 pm
I'm curious why you believe the Winters' mother in Lolita was that bad. From the POV of a husband, I can see her being a very annoying wife, but for a lonely widow, looking for a mate, I don't feel she was that bad as a mother. Was it because she should have tried to protect Lolita from the potential predator? Hey, I can see that, but he wasn't giving any overt clues as it relates to his unseemly desires.
I agree that the mom was very neglectful. My point was that in the film, I can't recall where she was provided any clues as to Humbert's sexual intentions as it relates to Lolita. You mix 'protecting and raising': Again, where in the film was she provided a clue as to Humbert intentions and didn't protect her from those intentions? You mention shipping her daughter off: That is a prime example of neglect but is unrelated to protecting her.LostHorizons wrote: ↑June 30th, 2023, 11:27 amAre you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 6:40 pmI haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.
Interesting: I watch a lot of 50s and 60s westerns and based on my viewing there are many more bad-fathers than there are bad-mothers.
Predator or not, you shouldn’t let some random guy you just met into your house and drive your kid into the arms of a child pornographer through your sheer neglect and stupidity. Dolores sought refuge in the arms of perverted men specifically because of her poor upbringing and the fact that even when the mom was around she was basically alone in the world without a strong paternal or maternal figure to guide her.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 30th, 2023, 11:43 amI agree that the mom was very neglectful. My point was that in the film, I can't recall where she was provided any clues as to Humbert's sexual intentions as it relates to Lolita. You mix 'protecting and raising': Again, where in the film was she provided a clue as to Humbert intentions and didn't protect her from those intentions? You mention shipping her daughter off: That is a prime example of neglect but is unrelated to protecting her.LostHorizons wrote: ↑June 30th, 2023, 11:27 amAre you joking right now or what? Lolita’s mom is a textbook neglectful parent in both the film and the book. She tried shipping her daughter off to a boarding school even iirc. She put zero effort into protecting or raising the kid and intended to make her someone else’s problem while she shacked up with her lover. It’s not even debatable that she is “just a lonely widow” because she is written to be as annoying and intentionally unlikeable as possible.jamesjazzguitar wrote: ↑June 29th, 2023, 6:40 pm
I haven't read the novel, but it appears you're saying that in the novel, what I'm calling 'clues' where given (or more pronounced). Like I said, I didn't see any (that I can recall), in the film (up to the time the mother died). E.g., the scene when the creep is looking at Lolita while she is sitting outside on a blanket. I don't recall the mother seeing him doing that (but it clearly singles to the audience what he is all about). In the film Clare Quilty sure picks up on some clues, but then he would since he was a predator like Humbert.
Yes, she is annoying (which I said), but the core issue being discussed is if the mom didn't protect her from Humbert in the film.
Note that the difference between the novel and film are due to the Production Code: The film couldn't have been made, if such clues were provided. Therefore, I believe you are judging the actions of the mother, as it relates to protecting her Humbert, from how things are more overtly portrayed in the book, than in the film.