WHAT FILMS HAVE YOU SEEN LATELY?

[Fossy]

.F. - Reminds me of Colin Clive in ‘History is Made at Night.’

C.M. - Wait...what?!!! Ahhh yes. He was wacky too. Possessive. Jealous. It consumed him. I didn't think of that!! To wreck the entire ship to get Jean and Boyer...BRILLIANT!!!

You will find some comments on this movie in Dramas, Sat Jun 01 13

[JackFavell]

Thanks Fossy.

Masha, I've never heard of The Second Woman, but I REALLY am starting to love Robert Young, especially in his darker, more noir roles, like They Won't Believe Me. There is something about his personality that suits that genre very well, and I wish he'd done more noir, but alas it seems his roles were drying up in this period, and he went to television. Even the straight dramatic films like The Enchanted Cottage and The Mortal Stormmake me appreciate Young a lot more.

The Second Woman seems to be pretty popular on youtube so take your pick of which version to watch here (I know I am going to):

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... woman+1950

[JackFavell]

In looking back over our discussion of Leave Her to Heaven, some things really pop out that I wish I'd said. For instance, when Maven talked about plaid, I wished I'd mentioned how brilliant it was for TCM to show Leave Her to Heaven and Written on the Wind back to back - the movies have more in common than I ever would have thought, including plaid:




Or when Maven asked about how women and men might see the film differently, I wish I'd said that Ellen is a man's perfect fantasy, much like Glenn Close would be years later in Fatal Attraction. She's perfect - she doesn't want kids, she doesn't want family. She only wants her husband. Any man would be salivating at the idea of a gorgeous woman with no strings attached. A dream come true, right? But the filmmakers flip that on it's ear, make it blacker than black in theme. So the movie appeals to women and men on some really weird levels.

For women, it's a portrayal of getting revenge for those little complaints and irritations that go along with home-making and being married. I've felt like getting rid of my husband's family on occasion, leaving us in peace. Or trying to get rid of the distractions that seem to make us distant from one another.

For men, it's a fantasy of the perfect woman, someone who wants exactly what they want, someone who's SO INTO YOU they just won't let anything get in the way. Heck, she KILLED to be alone with you. Isn't that the ultimate act of love? It's kind of sexy.

Also in reading back over our conversation I realize that love made Ellen do something that she never did before - tell the truth. She admitted killing Danny, she admitted to all the horrible things she did. For love. The man had the upper hand for the first time in Ellen's life, she gave it to him on a silver platter, with love. And that's why she framed him, because she gave her power willingly, and he snubbed that gift. He had to go, she had to get revenge. I think this is something that subliminally, everyone who has ever been dumped in a relationship can understand.

[ChiO]

For men, it's a fantasy of the perfect woman, someone who wants exactly what they want, someone who's SO INTO YOU they just won't let anything get in the way. Heck, she KILLED to be alone with you. Isn't that the ultimate act of love? It's kind of sexy.

Let's try some editing....

"For women, it's a fantasy of the perfect man, someone who wants exactly what they want, someone who's SO INTO YOU they just won't let anything get in the way. Heck, he KILLED to be alone with you. Isn't that the ultimate act of love? It's kind of sexy."

Discuss.

[JackFavell]

Do you really want me to discuss this or are you pointing up my glaringly sexist idea of what men want?

[ChiO]

Discuss "fantasy"? Heavens, no! That would demystify it and probably turn into a Horror show.

Sexist? Nah.... I see the fantasies as the same (just different manifestations).

P.S. I never fantasize about any character portrayed by Gene Tierney. Now...if you want to talk about...no, strike that...fantasize about any characterization by Dorothy Malone....

[Rita Hayworth]

Having seen Leave Her to Heaven, starring Gene Tierney twice in the past year on TCM - I find this movie the least favorite Gene Tierney Movie of all time - because I find it to be too distributing to watch and having said that - I was bothered by the cinematic elements that this movie brings.

Sorry Members - I vowed not to see it again!

[Vienna]

Cinemaven, loved your conversation with Jack Favell. It's easier when you've both seen the film and don't have to concentrate so much as on a first viewing. Great pics too.

[Fossy]

Thanks Fossy.

Masha, I've never heard of The Second Woman, but I REALLY am starting to love Robert Young, especially in his darker, more noir roles, like They Won't Believe Me. There is something about his personality that suits that genre very well, and I wish he'd done more noir, but alas it seems his roles were drying up in this period, and he went to television. Even the straight dramatic films like The Enchanted Cottage and The Mortal Stormmake me appreciate Young a lot more.

The Second Woman seems to be pretty popular on youtube so take your pick of which version to watch here (I know I am going to):

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... woman+1950

The Second Woman (1950) is part of my Betsy Drake Collection and I feel is a great movie.

The Mortal Storm ( 1940) is part of my Margaret Sullavan Collection. I found this a very moving show. One cannot help looking ahead and guessing what is coming up next. At no time did I doubt that Margaret would finish up with James. The actual ending was quite a shock to me.

The movie was released in 1940 and was set in 1933 when the Nazis came to power. Much has been written and movies made since then about the treatment of Jews. There were no jews per se in this movie, just Non-Arians being given a hard time.

Given that in 1940 U.S.A. was not yet at war with Germany and at least was pretending to be friends, I could not help wondering if the producers of this movie were being careful not to tread on German toes.

[JackFavell]

They absolutely were treading carefully. I read somewhere, it may have been something Moira wrote, that the studios were all very much afraid of mentioning the political situation in Germany. In fact, there was an appointed German censor who was overseeing all productions in Hollywood at this time, to make sure no references were made that cast a bad light on Germany and especially the Nazis. The man was appointed in the early to mid thirties, but accrued so much power that the studios were quite afraid of him as war loomed closer. So the movie was quite radical, though the cracks were breaking in this kind of sickening symbiotic relationship between Hollywood and Germany a bit before the movie came out.

[RedRiver]

I don't feel like extensive posting right now, but in the last two days I've watched:

THE GUNFIGHTER
THE OLD MAID
DEAD END
STAGE DOOR

Whatever I missed on "real TV," I'm pretty sure this was better!

[Rita Hayworth]

I like the THE GUNFIGHTER and STAGE DOOR too.

[MikeBSG]

A few days ago, I watched "Happy People: A Year in the Taiga" (2011) co-directed by Werner Herzog.

It is a documentary about fur trappers in central Siberia. I found it fascinating. I liked how we saw what was Russian (Victory Day and Christmas) as well as what was unique to Siberia. The trappers were fascinating people, their lives a mix of the traditional (hand-made skis and traps and hunting dogs) and modern (snowmobiles). The views of the icebound Yeseni River were breathtaking, and when the ice began breaking up, wow.

I'm not the world's biggest documentary fan, but this one was very interesting.

[CineMaven]

I don't feel like extensive posting right now, but in the last two days I've watched:

THE GUNFIGHTER
THE OLD MAID
DEAD END
STAGE DOOR

Whatever I missed on "real TV," I'm pretty sure this was better!

You didn't miss much on "real TV" Red. Well...maybe the "reality tv show": "Rodeo Girls." And don't worry about extensive posting. You out did yourself in your post about "DUEL IN THE SUN." I've got to ride on over there and weigh in on that.

* * * * * *

Cinemaven, loved your conversation with Jack Favell. It's easier when you've both seen the film and don't have to concentrate so much as on a first viewing. Great pics too.

Thank you Vienna. It was fun. And fast and furious typing too! Gene Tierney was designed beautifully in "Leave Her to Heaven."

* * * * * *

Do you really want me to discuss this or are you pointing up my glaringly sexist idea of what men want?

Hold tight Jackaaaay. Don't cave.

* * * * * *

Let's try some editing....

'For women, it's a fantasy of the perfect man, someone who wants exactly what they want, someone who's SO INTO YOU they just won't let anything get in the way. Heck, he KILLED to be alone with you. Isn't that the ultimate act of love? It's kind of sexy.'

Discuss.”

I don't know, ChiO...but when you put it like that, your edited hypothesis makes all the sense in the world to me. I agree with you.

* * * * * *

LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN is sooo creepy! I simply have to say this again: Noir doesn't have to be black and white. This nightmare boasts rich, beautiful colors. Yet the theme is as dark and diabolical as a crime story can get!”

You know what Red, being in that uber-Technicolor may just add to the horror of things. Say, whatever DID happen to those other two kids Ellen was swimming with? I love this movie.

* * * * * *

In looking back over our discussion of Leave Her to Heaven, some things really pop out that I wish I'd said. For instance, when Maven talked about plaid, I wished I'd mentioned how brilliant it was for TCM to show Leave Her to Heaven and Written on the Wind back to back - the movies have more in common than I ever would have thought, including plaid. Or when Maven asked about how women and men might see the film differently, I wish I'd said that Ellen is a man's perfect fantasy, much like Glenn Close would be years later in Fatal Attraction. She's perfect - she doesn't want kids, she doesn't want family. She only wants her husband. Any man would be salivating at the idea of a gorgeous woman with no strings attached. A dream come true, right? But the filmmakers flip that on it's ear, make it blacker than black in theme. So the movie appeals to women and men on some really weird levels...”

NO STRINGS

She's perfect - she doesn't want kids, she doesn't want family. She only wants her husband. Any man would be salivating at the idea of a gorgeous woman with no strings attached. A dream come true, right?”

Yeah....that sounds like a great deal, JaxxXxxon. Where can I get me some of that? Now I know you're basically talking tongue-in-cheek because even though that does sound swell, it does up to a point. Let's remember that Ellen asked a lot of questions. A lot...of...questions. She wasn't just satisfied with having Richard all to herself; she wanted to know all sorts of things ( Enid Sothern... )

( ) There goes his poker nights with the boys.
( ) There goes his solitary walks in the woods.
( ) There goes his appreciative glances at a pretty girl.

Ellen is like a Venus flytrap. A beautiful flower with an aromatic smell but a trap nonetheless. You touched on that when you say the filmmakers flip the script into dark territory. I like how you explore how the film could be viewed from the male and female perspective.

“For women, it's a portrayal of getting revenge for those little complaints and irritations that go along with home-making and being married. I've felt like getting rid of my husband's family on occasion, leaving us in peace. Or trying to get rid of the distractions that seem to make us distant from one another. ”

I say more date nights re: Elvis Costello.

Also in reading back over our conversation I realize that love made Ellen do something that she never did before - tell the truth. She admitted killing Danny, she admitted to all the horrible things she did. For love.”

BRILLIANT!! That’s a great observation. I love the sick twistedness of her truth...her confession. I see the scene so clearly. Richard begins to question her as the veil slowly falls from his eyes. She begins to cop to everything. It’s freeing in its crazy gloriousness. It’s sort of like she’s saying:

“Yes I let your brother die and killed our unborn child because I didn’t want to share you. In-laws? Ha! I don’t even want my own family around. Just like Ida Lupino said: ‘I committed murder to get you!’ See how much I love you Richard? Where’re you going? Uh-oh.”

Doesn’t sound so good when you think it through, Ellen. Like a dog bringing you a dead possum. (“Here Mom...I done good?”)

“The man had the upper hand for the first time in Ellen's life, she gave it to him on a silver platter, with love. And that's why she framed him, because she gave her power willingly, and he snubbed that gift. He had to go, she had to get revenge. I think this is something that subliminally, everyone who has ever been dumped in a relationship can understand.”

I hear ya Jackie, and in a wild way this really does make absolute sense. When a woman gives up her power and feels she’s not getting what she’s wanting, instead of blaming her self for the acquiescence, she blames the guy. Yes, she’d look good on a guy’s arm. Or in his bed. ‘But what else ya got Ellen?’ If only Ellen could have looked within for fulfillment instead of filling that hole from the outside. You wrote Ellen needs a job. She does, and there’re lots she could do. She had mad skills that would make her single-mindedness, employable:



( ) Swimming Instructor - With the proviso that she doesn’t let anyone drown.

( ) Caterer - You saw that breakfast spread she prepared for Richard.

( ) Clothes model:



One outfit was more spectacular than the next: her riding outfit, lounging pajamas, those simple red slacks w/the white blouse...that Chinese number. The girl could wear some clothes. Be a model. ( Zips up the back and no bows. )



( ) Make-up Counter - Her face. Flawless.

She could have done any number of things but she made Richard her raison d’etre. She looked outside herself instead of within. She was a black hole sucking in all light and air. If I were to carry the story to an horrific nth degree, I’d have Ellen just sitting there staring at Richard, unblinking, not letting him out of her sight. Never, never, never.

I wonder if Ellen would have done better to hook up with this guy:



* * * * * *

P.S. I never fantasize about any character portrayed by Gene Tierney. Now...if you want to talk about...no, strike that...fantasize about any characterization by Dorothy Malone....”

Dorothy Malone? Well now...



Count me in as a Dorothy Malone fan. She has smarts and a simmering sensuality. She was a grown-up woman, not a victimized kitten. I first saw her on tv in "Peyton Place." TV was where I usually discovered my favorite movie stars when I was a kid; only to then find out "they made movies??!!" I liked her with Bogie in her small scene in "The Big Sleep." Then she pulled a "Joan Bennett" and changed her hair color and then her career really took off. My favorite roles of her include: "The Last Sunset" "The Tarnished Angels" "Warlock" ( one of my favorite westerns ) and "The Last Voyage." No mention of Malone could be complete without mentioning her performance in "Written 0n The Wind." Yeah, it might be an over-the-top melodrama...but since when is THAT a bad thing? She just turned it on and turned it out in that movie. I don't quite know if Malone picked great scripts to show off her talents often enough. No one really reacted around me, but I was over the moon seeing her for two minutes in "Basic Instinct."

[ChiO]

Seeing THE TARNISHED ANGELS (my favorite Sirk) made me realize that,
yes, I'd jump out of an airplane for Dorothy Malone.

[youtube][/youtube]