POLL: Do you want a Like button? Poll has ended!

[ElCid]

a step which those who don't want to use it, don't have to.

Those who demand a: 'Like' button are quite free to go to: FaceSpace, Twitterings, Instaslut or any other trashy site which currently uses them. There is no objective reason to have one here.

The site was being used as an archive by members. It was quite fine at that. I remember no recruitment drive nor any promises made to attract new members. The admins went to great lengths to accommodate the influx of people desperately seeking refuge. This is how you repay their generosity of spirit?

It is quite uncivilized to enter someone's home as a guest and instantly start demanding they plaster their walls with posters of nude freaks, that rap performed by convicted criminals be played loudly all night and that a flagpole be installed on the front lawn so you can fly your hammer and sickle. What you are demanding is the online equivalent to those.

Y'all should be thankful that I am not an: Admin because I would likely ban several of those who agitate for this issue. The most I can do as a member is fear what asinine demands you will make next, devirginize my: 'Foe' list and hope that you soon tire of being trolls here and go to your kindred spirit's site where any old lung disease can become god.

Thank you.

[Swithin]

a step which those who don't want to use it, don't have to.

Those who demand a: 'Like' button are quite free to go to: FaceSpace, Twitterings, Instaslut or any other trashy site which currently uses them. There is no objective reason to have one here.

The site was being used as an archive by members. It was quite fine at that. I remember no recruitment drive nor any promises made to attract new members. The admins went to great lengths to accommodate the influx of people desperately seeking refuge. This is how you repay their generosity of spirit?

It is quite uncivilized to enter someone's home as a guest and instantly start demanding they plaster their walls with posters of nude freaks, that rap performed by convicted criminals be played loudly all night and that a flagpole be installed on the front lawn so you can fly your hammer and sickle. What you are demanding is the online equivalent to those.

Y'all should be thankful that I am not an: Admin because I would likely ban several of those who agitate for this issue. The most I can do as a member is fear what asinine demands you will make next, devirginize my: 'Foe' list and hope that you soon tire of being trolls here and go to your kindred spirit's site where any old lung disease can become god.

My Dear Masha,

What an uncharacteristic and uncharitable post, and in this season of giving!

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote. I have a wide experience in websites, blogs, chat boards, etc.; in fact, in the 1990s, when the Internet was coming into flower, I produced a few seminars and a symposia for New York cultural institutions. So I know about the conventions and best practices.

If as you suggest this is an archive, perhaps you might consider not allowing any comments. That way, it would be a true archive.

If you don't want it to change, or to grow, or to have new members offer inconvenient opinions, it would make perfect sense to make it by invitation only, and not visible to the general public. There are many such closed sites.

If the moderators do want new blood -- as I think they do -- then they need to hear our opinions (as they are doing). If the point comes when I feel like I'm an interloper into your "home," (and, based on your post, I fear that point may be coming), then I will leave.

You seem to denigrate boards that allow "like" buttons, referring to them as "trashy." May I remind you of two things:

1. I'm on a few sites, including a highly respected British theater site, where likes are the norm;

2. Before you call another site "trashy," may I remind you that in all my years using the Internet, I have never before been redirected to PORN SITES, as I have, on numerous occasions, in accessing this site.

Merry Christmas!

[ElCid]

a step which those who don't want to use it, don't have to.

Those who demand a: 'Like' button are quite free to go to: FaceSpace, Twitterings, Instaslut or any other trashy site which currently uses them. There is no objective reason to have one here.

The site was being used as an archive by members. It was quite fine at that. I remember no recruitment drive nor any promises made to attract new members. The admins went to great lengths to accommodate the influx of people desperately seeking refuge. This is how you repay their generosity of spirit?

It is quite uncivilized to enter someone's home as a guest and instantly start demanding they plaster their walls with posters of nude freaks, that rap performed by convicted criminals be played loudly all night and that a flagpole be installed on the front lawn so you can fly your hammer and sickle. What you are demanding is the online equivalent to those.

Y'all should be thankful that I am not an: Admin because I would likely ban several of those who agitate for this issue. The most I can do as a member is fear what asinine demands you will make next, devirginize my: 'Foe' list and hope that you soon tire of being trolls here and go to your kindred spirit's site where any old lung disease can become god.

My Dear Masha,

What an uncharacteristic and uncharitable post, and in this season of giving!

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote. I have a wide experience in websites, blogs, chat boards, etc.; in fact, in the 1990s, when the Internet was coming into flower, I produced a few seminars and a symposia for New York cultural institutions. So I know about the conventions and best practices.

If as you suggest this is an archive, perhaps you might consider not allowing any comments. That way, it would be a true archive.

If you don't want it to change, or to grow, or to have new members offer inconvenient opinions, it would make perfect sense to make it by invitation only, and not visible to the general public. There are many such closed sites.

If the moderators do want new blood -- as I think they do -- then they need to hear our opinions (as they are doing). If the point comes when I feel like I'm an interloper into your "home," (and, based on your post, I fear that point may be coming), then I will leave.

You seem to denigrate boards that allow "like" buttons, referring to them as "trashy." May I remind you of two things:

1. I'm on a few sites, including a highly respected British theater site, where likes are the norm;

2. Before you call another site "trashy," may I remind you that in all my years using the Internet, I have never before been redirected to PORN SITES, as I have, on numerous occasions, in accessing this site.

Merry Christmas!

Sad.
While I believe Masha may have been a little harsher than some of us would have been, she did just express her beliefs on the subject.
As another "refugee" from the TCM boards, I saw the like button there abused and ultimately become a contest.
On the other hand, in all fairness, if there is a like button, there should also be a disagree or dislike button.
I think the administrators here have done a great job of working with us to change things that are changes for the better and to accept our recommendations. However, the addition of a like button is not a change for the better.
If a poster wants to like what someone else posted, they can quote them and say that.
Ultimately, we are the new people here and need to be more respectful of those who came before us and those who manage this forum for us. Suggestions from us have been made, analyzed and enacted when appropriate.
The fact that 40% of the few people who voted are opposed is significant.
Since some are trying to amend the procedures of SSO, the standard should be a 3/4 vote in favor and not just a simple majority. Then have another vote in 3-4 months, but I would leave that up to the moderators.
Happy Holidays!

[ElCid]

Below is my response to Cuthbert's post responding to Masha's. Not sure why it posted as part of his response.

Sad.
While I believe Masha may have been a little harsher than some of us would have been, she did just express her beliefs on the subject.
As another "refugee" from the TCM boards, I saw the like button there abused and ultimately become a contest.
On the other hand, in all fairness, if there is a like button, there should also be a disagree or dislike button.
I think the administrators here have done a great job of working with us to change things that are changes for the better and to accept our recommendations. However, the addition of a like button is not a change for the better.
If a poster wants to like what someone else posted, they can quote them and say that.
Ultimately, we are the new people here and need to be more respectful of those who came before us and those who manage this forum for us. Suggestions from us have been made, analyzed and enacted when appropriate.
The fact that 40% of the few people who voted are opposed is significant.
Since some are trying to amend the procedures of SSO, the standard should be a 3/4 vote in favor and not just a simple majority. Then have another vote in 3-4 months, but I would leave that up to the moderators.

[LawrenceA]

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote.

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

[Swithin]

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote.

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

There was a very gracious and informative post from Movieman1957, which included this sentence:

"With the influx of new people, which is wonderful, we are playing catch up."

I appreciate what the Mods have done here, and I appreciate Movieman's comment that the influx is "wonderful." But I do want to let Masha know that the kind of private board that she seems to yearn for, is very possible to achieve as well.

[ElCid]

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote.

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

Lawrence, hope you don't leave but then you are also on "the other site" I believe.
I am a little confused by your post. See the highlighted statements. Who are the site elders? Existing users of SSO, new people from TCM site, somebody else? What relationship does that have to EP Millstone? Is he a site elder?
Who is saying they are 'doing you homeless slobs a favor....?" I haven't seen that sentiment at all from the administrators or existing members of this site.
As I noted, some "refugees" from TCM have made suggestions and the administrators considered them and made changes as appropriate. They have been very accommodating.

[Swithin]

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote.

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

Lawrence, hope you don't leave but then you are also on "the other site" I believe.
I am a little confused by your post. See the highlighted statements. Who are the site elders? Existing users of SSO, new people from TCM site, somebody else? What relationship does that have to EP Millstone? Is he a site elder?
Who is saying they are 'doing you homeless slobs a favor....?" I haven't seen that sentiment at all from the administrators or existing members of this site.
As I noted, some "refugees" from TCM have made suggestions and the administrators considered them and made changes as appropriate. They have been very accommodating.

I assume Lawerence (who can speak for himself) was referring to Masha's outburst. Here's a quote from her post: "It is quite uncivilized to enter someone's home as a guest and instantly start demanding they plaster their walls with posters of nude freaks, that rap performed by convicted criminals be played loudly all night and that a flagpole be installed on the front lawn so you can fly your hammer and sickle. What you are demanding is the online equivalent to those." ElCid, you're a civilized chap and, even if you don't want a "like" button, you must eschew Masha's vituperative outburst.

[LawrenceA]

Lawrence, hope you don't leave but then you are also on "the other site" I believe.
I am a little confused by your post. See the highlighted statements. Who are the site elders? Existing users of SSO, new people from TCM site, somebody else? What relationship does that have to EP Millstone? Is he a site elder?
Who is saying they are 'doing you homeless slobs a favor....?" I haven't seen that sentiment at all from the administrators or existing members of this site.
As I noted, some "refugees" from TCM have made suggestions and the administrators considered them and made changes as appropriate. They have been very accommodating.

I have an account on the other site, but have not really participated much, and don't really have any desire to do so. The majority of my few posts there have been about this site.

I can't believe I need to parse my previous statement, but here goes: "elders" refers to the mods and those who have had an account here long before the recent TCM exodus. EP Millstone is not an "elder", and my point was it was a newcomer that started this thread/poll, not one of the older site regulars. As for the "homeless slobs shouldn't complain" bit, I was paraphrasing Masha's comments, in particular the passage where she likened us newcomers to guests in someone's house who hang lewd art and play rap music (?!?), and that the newcomers' demands are "asinine", and that some of the newcomers are "trolls".

I thought my comments were fairly clear, but apparently not clear enough for some.

[ElCid]

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

Lawrence, hope you don't leave but then you are also on "the other site" I believe.
I am a little confused by your post. See the highlighted statements. Who are the site elders? Existing users of SSO, new people from TCM site, somebody else? What relationship does that have to EP Millstone? Is he a site elder?
Who is saying they are 'doing you homeless slobs a favor....?" I haven't seen that sentiment at all from the administrators or existing members of this site.
As I noted, some "refugees" from TCM have made suggestions and the administrators considered them and made changes as appropriate. They have been very accommodating.

I assume Lawerence (who can speak for himself) was referring to Masha's outburst. Here's a quote from her post: "It is quite uncivilized to enter someone's home as a guest and instantly start demanding they plaster their walls with posters of nude freaks, that rap performed by convicted criminals be played loudly all night and that a flagpole be installed on the front lawn so you can fly your hammer and sickle. What you are demanding is the online equivalent to those." ElCid, you're a civilized chap and, even if you don't want a "like" button, you must eschew Masha's vituperative outburst.

I didn't get that from Lawrence's post, but that may be why it is confusing to me.
As regards Masha's comments, as I said earlier I think it was probably too harsh, but it also apparently reflects how she feels about the situation.
It is that very old scenario that I experienced at school, work, in the military, in civic organizations and so forth. The new people come in and want to make a lot of changes and this offends the existing members of the group. Change is good, but I think perhaps those who have joined here in last three months need to be cautious in what we recommend. And no more polling for six months. Changes have been recommended and the administrators have been overly cooperative in making them as appropriate.

This has become the most divisive topic on here of which I am aware.

[ElCid]

Lawrence, hope you don't leave but then you are also on "the other site" I believe.
I am a little confused by your post. See the highlighted statements. Who are the site elders? Existing users of SSO, new people from TCM site, somebody else? What relationship does that have to EP Millstone? Is he a site elder?
Who is saying they are 'doing you homeless slobs a favor....?" I haven't seen that sentiment at all from the administrators or existing members of this site.
As I noted, some "refugees" from TCM have made suggestions and the administrators considered them and made changes as appropriate. They have been very accommodating.

I have an account on the other site, but have not really participated much, and don't really have any desire to do so. The majority of my few posts there have been about this site.

I can't believe I need to parse my previous statement, but here goes: "elders" refers to the mods and those who have had an account here long before the recent TCM exodus. EP Millstone is not an "elder", and my point was it was a newcomer that started this thread/poll, not one of the older site regulars. As for the "homeless slobs shouldn't complain" bit, I was paraphrasing Masha's comments, in particular the passage where she likened us newcomers to guests in someone's house who hang lewd art and play rap music (?!?), and that the newcomers' demands are "asinine", and that some of the newcomers are "trolls".

I thought my comments were fairly clear, but apparently not clear enough for some.

Thank you. That clarifies it for me.
As I have said before, I believe the administrators here have been super accommodating in accepting our suggestions - when valid.

[Masha]

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

I am very sorry if I gave that impression. It was not my intent. It should be kept in mind also that I am a member only and do not speak for the admins or any other members. I know that the powers-that-be consider new members' reasonable suggestions seriously and implemented those when and where practical.

Several pre-2022 members came out against this at its first mention and our lone and long-suffering IT guru who would have to do the work to implement it stated he was not enthusiastic.

It is my considered opinion that the continued rants about it, the toddler-level of logic displayed and the gross misinformation which the forum has been continuously force-fed by rabble-rousers is a gross insult to everyone.

It is those people and no one else who have clearly demonstrated that they are mindless slobs with no respect for any other user.

It is fortunate that they are a small percentage of the new users.

[laffite]

I was under the impression that we were welcome here; in fact the mods have been most kind and welcoming, and supported the "like" vote.

I only recall one mod here posting in this thread, and their opinion on the "Like" button was extremely negative. They were the one that stated that the "for" votes had to be an overwhelming majority, and then maybe. But I've only seen negative sentiment about a Like button by the site "elders". And it was EP Millstone that started this thread/poll, I believe.

I must admit, though, that the sentiment that "we're doing you homeless slobs a favor and you better not complain" rankles me a bit. Perhaps it's time to retire the message board phase of my life, after all.

That's when we should have just given up the idea (the BOLD above). This site did not have a LIKE button when we got here so let it be so. Lomm is not negative, he is simply relating norms about the site before we got here and indicated that a LIKE button is not something that ought be changed. I wish that damn poll had never been initiated. It has contributed to the perfect storm. I say LAISSEZ-FAIRE from now on. Two Cents.

EP, apologies, you have been a great help here and I had nothing against the poll, but now i sense that it has become a negative thing, partially causing all this controversy and discontent.

[Swithin]

I'm sorry to say that what Masha did with her rant was something I have not yet seen here, i.e. she dragged the conversation down to the level of the worst excesses of the TCM Off-Topic political threads. She has given a qualified "I'm sorry," but I think we deserve a full-throated "I'm humbly mortified by my atypical behavior, and I apologize."

We may all have expressed strong opinions about the "like" subject; what Masha did what drag it down to a personal level, using terms like "trolls," etc.

The votes are in. I don't think it's for us now to opine as to how they should be interpreted. That's the Mods job, as it's Elon Musk's job to deal with the Twitter poll.

[Swithin]

Deleted, duplicate.