MUSINGS, PONDERINGS, RUMINATIONS AND FANCIES

[jamesjazzguitar]

I have to frankly admit Dick really shows his age in that dream ballet more than anywhere else in the movie.

Cary Grant was "paired" with Shirley Temple (who ironically in 1947 was already an old married woman IRL) in THE BACHELOR AND THE BOBBY-SOXER. He was about 44 at that time and Mrs. John Agar 19.

Grant was not paired with Temple. That was a plot twist as imposed by the judge, (Loy), Temple's sister in order to get Temple over her crush over Grant. The script made it very clear that if Grant had designs on Temple (who was a senior in High School), that would be beyond creepy (i.e. a crime which the DA made clear).

Again, it isn't the looks of the man, per se, but more due to the vast age difference, such a young woman would have nothing to offer to a mature, sophisticated man, beyond sex. E.g. what would they talk about after having sex?

Yes I know it was a plot twist -- that's why I put the word "paired" in quotation marks. Sorry if this wasn't made clear by me.

Speaking of this subject, I just saw PRETTY BABY after many years, where a 12 year old Brooke Shields is definitely paired (no quotation marks here) with Keith Carradine. We are not told his character's age but he looks "only" about 30. I won't give spoilers but will say that the ending almost gives permission for the audience (including myself) to have ambivalent feelings about where Violet (Shields) eventually ends up.

What was clear to me was why you mentioned The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer in the first place since there is no relationship, of any kind, between an older man and a much younger woman.

[txfilmfan]

I have to frankly admit Dick really shows his age in that dream ballet more than anywhere else in the movie.

Cary Grant was "paired" with Shirley Temple (who ironically in 1947 was already an old married woman IRL) in THE BACHELOR AND THE BOBBY-SOXER. He was about 44 at that time and Mrs. John Agar 19.

Grant was not paired with Temple. That was a plot twist as imposed by the judge, (Loy), Temple's sister in order to get Temple over her crush over Grant. The script made it very clear that if Grant had designs on Temple (who was a senior in High School), that would be beyond creepy (i.e. a crime which the DA made clear).

Again, it isn't the looks of the man, per se, but more due to the vast age difference, such a young woman would have nothing to offer to a mature, sophisticated man, beyond sex. E.g. what would they talk about after having sex?

I think the bigger belief hurdle in the film is Myrna Loy having a sister as young as Temple when she was actually old enough to be Temple's mother! Is there any mention of them being step or half sisters in the film? (haven't seen it in a long time).

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. There were 18 years difference between the eldest and youngest siblings in my family, with an 11 year gap between the older two and younger two. It happens. There's about 22 years difference in the actresses' ages, with both playing a bit younger than their years.

IIRC, they were not step or half sisters in the film.

[Dargo]

I'm sorry I missed this, I'm a big Chayefsky fan.
Instead I've got THE HOSPITAL '71 set to record- something I've never seen & frankly, a comedy movie is much more needed to endure the upcoming "holiday" season than a downer.

Well Tiki, after you watch 'The Hospital', I don't think you'll find that your sense of "holiday joy" will have been elevated to any great degree.

(...it's a very dark comedy ya know, and so you'll probably find that your sense of cynicism will have been elevated instead)

[Bronxgirl48]

Speaking of Kim Stanley in THE GODDESS: To demonstrate what a great director of actors Bryan Forbes was, compare Kim Stanley in THE GODDESS (directed by John Cromwell, some of whose other films I admire) with her far less mannered, in fact quite good, performance in SEANCE ON A WET AFTERNOON.

Kim Stanley created the role on Broadway that Marilyn Monroe played in BUS STOP, so it isn't entirely unreasonable for her to play the Marilyn character in THE GODDESS. Unfortunately, she has minimal sex appeal. There's a line of dialogue about the character's warmth, but Kim Stanley has even less warmth than sex appeal. Elia Kazan mentions in his memoirs that he was not a fan of Stanley's work and did not want to cast her in his films or plays.

The other odd bit of casting in THE GODDESS is Joan Copeland--a quintessential well-educated Jewish New Yorker--as a Southerner. She does better than I would have thought.

Agree about Kim in SEANCE ON A WET AFTERNOON although even there she can't completely lose her Method roots.

I had absolutely no idea Stanley originated the role of sweet, vulnerable, sexy Cherie in BUS STOP on stage. Frankly the casting boggles my mind!

I can't remember what character Joan Copeland plays in the film.

[Bronxgirl48]

Grant was not paired with Temple. That was a plot twist as imposed by the judge, (Loy), Temple's sister in order to get Temple over her crush over Grant. The script made it very clear that if Grant had designs on Temple (who was a senior in High School), that would be beyond creepy (i.e. a crime which the DA made clear).

Again, it isn't the looks of the man, per se, but more due to the vast age difference, such a young woman would have nothing to offer to a mature, sophisticated man, beyond sex. E.g. what would they talk about after having sex?

Yes I know it was a plot twist -- that's why I put the word "paired" in quotation marks. Sorry if this wasn't made clear by me.

Speaking of this subject, I just saw PRETTY BABY after many years, where a 12 year old Brooke Shields is definitely paired (no quotation marks here) with Keith Carradine. We are not told his character's age but he looks "only" about 30. I won't give spoilers but will say that the ending almost gives permission for the audience (including myself) to have ambivalent feelings about where Violet (Shields) eventually ends up.

What was clear to me was why you mentioned The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer in the first place since there is no relationship, of any kind, between an older man and a much younger woman.

james, you remind me of a man with the power of hoodoo!

[Bronxgirl48]

So nobody is going to watch THE GODDESS "live" with me tonight? I am crushed.

[jamesjazzguitar]

Yes I know it was a plot twist -- that's why I put the word "paired" in quotation marks. Sorry if this wasn't made clear by me.

Speaking of this subject, I just saw PRETTY BABY after many years, where a 12 year old Brooke Shields is definitely paired (no quotation marks here) with Keith Carradine. We are not told his character's age but he looks "only" about 30. I won't give spoilers but will say that the ending almost gives permission for the audience (including myself) to have ambivalent feelings about where Violet (Shields) eventually ends up.

What was clear to me was why you mentioned The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer in the first place since there is no relationship, of any kind, between an older man and a much younger woman.

james, you remind me of a man with the power of hoodoo!

Harry Davenport was my favorite character in the film. Power of hoodoo. Who do? Hoodoo!

[Bronxgirl48]

Poor Harry, with everyone slamming doors and making him lose concentration on the chess game, lol.

The usual sexist stuff of course: Ray Collins (Uncle Matt) remarking to Myrna as she puts on her work robes: "Enter judge, exit woman. More's the pity" Drives me crazy every time!

[Hibi]

Grant was not paired with Temple. That was a plot twist as imposed by the judge, (Loy), Temple's sister in order to get Temple over her crush over Grant. The script made it very clear that if Grant had designs on Temple (who was a senior in High School), that would be beyond creepy (i.e. a crime which the DA made clear).

Again, it isn't the looks of the man, per se, but more due to the vast age difference, such a young woman would have nothing to offer to a mature, sophisticated man, beyond sex. E.g. what would they talk about after having sex?

I think the bigger belief hurdle in the film is Myrna Loy having a sister as young as Temple when she was actually old enough to be Temple's mother! Is there any mention of them being step or half sisters in the film? (haven't seen it in a long time).

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. There were 18 years difference between the eldest and youngest siblings in my family, with an 11 year gap between the older two and younger two. It happens. There's about 22 years difference in the actresses' ages, with both playing a bit younger than their years.

IIRC, they were not step or half sisters in the film.

I know it's possible, but I don't think it's very common. (at least nowadays). Plus weren't they the only siblings in the family? There was no sibling between them?

[Bronxgirl48]

Hey guys, I just checked the Chayefsky schedule for this evening and completely forgot about MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, another must-see! Fredric March, Kim Novak and Glenda Farrell are very fine. March was not Jewish but is quite believable in the part of an aging NYC garment district clothing manufacturer falling in love with the young company receptionist. (Eddie Robinson and Gena Rowlands I believe originated these roles on Broadway)


THE GODDESS airs 12 midnight Eastern Standard Time and MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT directly follows.

[CinemaInternational]

Notes...

Tiki, the endless array of reheated audovisual material going to the stage has been around for a while. It was true in the 80s with Phantom of the Opera and Les Miserables, and it became more pronounced after three movie adaptations in a row won the top Tony: The Producers, Thoroughly Modern Millie, and Hairspray. Broadway musicals anymore often resemble fast food because the hefty budgets of musicals often leads to what is considered "safe" to finance, thus endless rehashes. It's not good.

Paddy Chayefsky is a bit hit and miss for me, but I love Marty, like The Americanization of Emily, and Network is smashing. I do remember seeing The Goddess and recall it was downbeat, but interesting. Please note that the child who plays the young Kim Stanley in the early scenes is actually Patty Duke in her film debut. I should see Middle of the Night again. I usually love Kim Novak, and the time I saw it, I was a bit distracted.

All Mine to Give is an extreme tearjerker, definitely the most melancholic of Christmas films, hard to watch without shedding a tear.

Susan Slept Here is offbeat, but very likable, and is probably the only film "narrated" by an Oscar statuette.

No Dick Powell film could have wilder dialogue than that scene in Broadway Gondolier where he , playing a character named Dick involved with then wife Joan Blondell, instructs her to send a telegram to her fiancee saying it should say: "I love Dick. Am kissing dick now" That's even more forward than Mae West. Would love to know how it slipped by the Hayes Code people.

I never had a problem with Grant and Temple in Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer since it is clear that Grant does not wish to date her. If they had wanted to date, that would be a different story. Myrna was 23 years older than Shirley. I guess its possible that they could be sisters if the parents married at 18 and then had a "surprise" baby in their 40s. Moonstruck in 1987 offers an even more egregious example with a 31 year gap between "brothers" Danny Aiello and Nicolas Cage. When did their mother get married? The age of 12?

Pretty Baby really troubled me. I think its telling that they set this story of childhood prostitution at the turn of the century at the turn of the century to give it a veneer of respectability, as if to say this could not happen now. If it had been based around the gritty realities of the 70s like Jodie Foster in Taxi Driver (and note, she was never shown in anything less than full clothing in that film) , I think it would have been universally rejected. At first the film stayed just barely on this side of decorum until they put Brooke in that nude colored body stocking, and at that point it crossed the point of no return, of total indecency, although at least Louis Malle didn't have her completely nude (even though it looked that way onscreen), unlike what Bernardo Bertolucci did to that pubescent boy in 1900 a couple years earlier.

[txfilmfan]

I think the bigger belief hurdle in the film is Myrna Loy having a sister as young as Temple when she was actually old enough to be Temple's mother! Is there any mention of them being step or half sisters in the film? (haven't seen it in a long time).

Doesn't seem odd to me at all. There were 18 years difference between the eldest and youngest siblings in my family, with an 11 year gap between the older two and younger two. It happens. There's about 22 years difference in the actresses' ages, with both playing a bit younger than their years.

IIRC, they were not step or half sisters in the film.

I know it's possible, but I don't think it's very common. (at least nowadays)

Very rare, I'd say, these days, given the birthrate is down to about 1.6 or 1.7 (below population replacement levels) from about 3.5 in the late 50s.

[TikiSoo]

I love Marty, like The Americanization of Emily, and Network is smashing. I should see Middle of the Night again. I usually love Kim Novak

I too like those movies...Middle of the Night is one of my all time favorites. I love the story & performances.

No Dick Powell film could have wilder dialogue (snipped) "I love Dick. Am kissing dick now"

I want a t-shirt that says that in big red letters encircling this photo:

[Swithin]

Middle of the Night is one of my all time favorites. I love the story & performances.

Middle of the Night premiered on Broadway in 1956. The cast included Edward G. Robinson, Gena Rowlands, and Anne Jackson. Broadway cast members who appeared in the movie are Martin Balsam, Betty Walker. Leigh Phillips, and Effie Afton. The play was directed by Joshua Logan.

[Andree]

So this sexy babe walks right up to him and says "Mike, how'd you like to hammer me tonight." So what does
he do? He socks this broad right in the kisser. Pow. This dame's head spins around like a slot machine. What
a guy. Then he says to this broad "Sorry honey, I've got a hot poker game tonight. Maybe some other time."
I tell ya, that Mickey Spillane, he can really write.

-Hey Marty, what ya want to do tonight?
-I don't know Ang, what you want to do?
-Wanna go to the Paradise and see a movie?
-Nah, last time we went there the usher kicked us out for...
-Oh yeah, forgot about that.
-How about heading over to the piers?
-The piers? C'mon Marty, don't you know what kind of action they got there?
-Oh yeah, skip it.
-Hey, Ralph told me there's some girls over by the boulevard who will do it for
twenty bucks a throw.
-Now you're talking Ang. Let me go into the house and get a twenty. Be right back.