Noir Alley

[Bronxgirl48]

I enjoyed BLOOD OFF MY HANDS but could not always take it seriously. I agree with someone that Joan tried to play it a little too nonchalant in the beginning and I wondered whether she had a feel for the role, but she came on strong at the last, especially helpful in that she had more to do. A weird parallel came to mind regarding Burt and AudreyH. Here the former quite a splash with screen appearance in an early role, and the latter the same with Roman Holiday. Just a few years apart to help usher in the post-war era. The pair of scissors as a murder weapon made me chuckle, who could not think of Dial M? Newton was fine of course, but the role seems so Taylor-Made for him that the performance had a phoned-in quality about it or perhaps more fair, it came too easy. If Burt's performance seemed a little green, it was overcome by sheer physically and energy, added to by a stunning new face. He even had a bare upper torso scene which should thrill any of the ilk of woman in thrall to such things. Better even than a t-shirt scene (semi-private joke).

I liked the ending where they decide to face the music.

This reminded me of Port of Call Ingmar Bergman. This film was a little more salient because the two protagonists were much younger

and would have been more expected to run away

. It was moving and a bit of a feel-good quality.

laffite, wow, two great minds -- I did think of DIAL M FOR MURDER as Joan reached for the scissors six years before Grace. And I could not agree with you more about Robert Newton; this was an actor who could practically play Bill Sikes in his sleep, lol. (not forgetting Blackbeard and Long John Silver)

[Bronxgirl48]

George's obsession was in the completion of the concerto. That was what was fatalistic; anyone that got in the way had to be dealt with. We see that at the end. What is unrealistic is that the Doctor doesn't. I.e. if he would have let George go and perform his concerto, George would have gone quietly to a mental facility. But then we would not have had that one-for-the-books ending.

Great points I hadn't immediately thought of, james. So do you think HANGOVER SQUARE could be considered noir?

Generally I try to avoid the noir\not noir classification. Hangover Square has some noir themes, as well as visuals. That being said, if I was writing a book on Film Noir I would not list Hangover Square in the main section of the book. Instead I would feature it in the appendix as a period-film that has noir themes.

This is what the book Film Noir (Ward \ Silver), does: In the appendix it has western films with noir themes (Blood on the Moon, Perused), comedies (Unfaithfully Yours), etc...

I tend to agree with you -- sometimes I think I can actually find noir themes in every single movie I watch, including the Shirley Temple Depression-era vehicles, lol. (abandonment, alienation in an uncaring universe, spinach as an evil vegetable, etc. Okay maybe not the last)

[Sue Sue Applegate]

I agree, Bronxgirl! And so glad you are here.

[Andree]

I could believe it, lol -- the start of their friendly competitive rivalry.

Just a couple of grown-up kids. My aunt went to school with Kirk Douglas in Amsterdam, NY when he was still
known as Isodor Demsky.

[Andree]

-Want to go to my place and see my etchings?
-Yeah, I've never heard that one before.
-How about my collection of European salt shakers?
-Get lost.
-I've got a baseball autographed by Wee Willie Keeler.
-Now you're talking. Let's go.

Any movie that begins with a guy saying 'I don't want a priest' can't be that bad. Out of the big city into the wide spaces of the
west. Ruth is tied of playing Desdemona and getting strangled every night in small, jerkwater towns, so she's taking a dude ranch
vacay. On the way she meets Todd, the recently acquitted wife killer. Did he or didn't he? That is the question. She gets to the
dude ranch to find it's closed, but proprietor McCambridge lets her stay on for a few days. Back where she first came from, she
is introduced to Scott, playing his usual dapper ladies' man of semi-creepy charm with more one liners than Henny Youngman. They
flirt for a while, but she ping pongs back to Todd, where the two kids discover yep, they're in love and get married, with Ruth convinced
that Todd is not a killer. But he goes all weird during their wedding night and Ruth takes off before the marriage can be consummated,
unless it already was among the cliffs of the desert. Then we discover that Mercedes was in love with Todd and went and killed his
first wife. Naughty, naughty. Mercedes tries to strangle Ruth, but she fails and is taken into custody. Ruth and Richard get back
together and ride off happily into the sunset. The western setting makes things a little more interesting and there are some nice shots
of the western expanse with some touches of the gothic at the start of the film, but the story itself is rather threadbare and
unoriginal. It is fun to see Scott dressed up in his cowpoke gear while spouting his usual smart aleck dialogue. Entertaining enough,
but it's nothing special.

[laffite]

-Want to go to my place and see my etchings?
-Yeah, I've never heard that one before.
-How about my collection of European salt shakers?
-Get lost.
-I've got a baseball autographed by Wee Willie Keeler.
-Now you're talking. Let's go.

Any movie that begins with a guy saying 'I don't want a priest' can't be that bad. Out of the big city into the wide spaces of the
west. Ruth is tied of playing Desdemona and getting strangled every night in small, jerkwater towns, so she's taking a dude ranch
vacay. On the way she meets Todd, the recently acquitted wife killer. Did he or didn't he? That is the question. She gets to the
dude ranch to find it's closed, but proprietor McCambridge lets her stay on for a few days. Back where she first came from, she
is introduced to Scott, playing his usual dapper ladies' man of semi-creepy charm with more one liners than Henny Youngman. They
flirt for a while, but she ping pongs back to Todd, where the two kids discover yep, they're in love and get married, with Ruth convinced
that Todd is not a killer. But he goes all weird during their wedding night and Ruth takes off before the marriage can be consummated,
unless it already was among the cliffs of the desert. Then we discover that Mercedes was in love with Todd and went and killed his
first wife. Naughty, naughty. Mercedes tries to strangle Ruth, but she fails and is taken into custody. Ruth and Richard get back
together and ride off happily into the sunset. The western setting makes things a little more interesting and there are some nice shots
of the western expanse with some touches of the gothic at the start of the film, but the story itself is rather threadbare and
unoriginal. It is fun to see Scott dressed up in his cowpoke gear while spouting his usual smart aleck dialogue. Entertaining enough,
but it's nothing special.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out the movie (for shame, I'm sure). But I like the idea and this was entertaining.

I have a post on file where I did the very same thing. Maybe I'll post it if I can find it.

BTW, I ran across your loverly avatar by chance on the Net. Your boy from the Z novel is a paragon of virtue compared to this gal. You have a penchant for choosing morbid avatars.

[Andree]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out the movie (for shame, I'm sure). But I like the idea and this was entertaining.

I have a post on file where I did the very same thing. Maybe I'll post it if I can find it.

BTW, I ran across your loverly avatar by chance on the Net. Your boy from the Z novel is a paragon of virtue compared to this gal. You have a penchant for choosing morbid avatars.

I think the plot was fairly easy to understand; it's the old love triangle/quadrangle with the guilty man who is actually innocent
thrown in. I forgot to mention that this time when Mercedes and Darryl got into the truck at the end of the movie it really
did lead to a tragedy, as it often does. I felt a little sorry for Darryl as his role, even though it was a supporting one, didn't
give him much to do. He spent most of his time hobbling around after Mercedes. One thing I couldn't figure out was why the
Nolans had a painting of Trevelyan in their living room over the fireplace. At first I thought he might be their son, but he wasn't.
Seems strange if he was just a friend.

Myra's mugshot is really terrible. Even a serial killer deserves better than that. I just choose it as a dash of black humor, nothing
more.

[laffite]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to figure out the movie (for shame, I'm sure). But I like the idea and this was entertaining.

I have a post on file where I did the very same thing. Maybe I'll post it if I can find it.

BTW, I ran across your loverly avatar by chance on the Net. Your boy from the Z novel is a paragon of virtue compared to this gal. You have a penchant for choosing morbid avatars.

I think the plot was fairly easy to understand; it's the old love triangle/quadrangle with the guilty man who is actually innocent
thrown in. I forgot to mention that this time when Mercedes and Darryl got into the truck at the end of the movie it really
did lead to a tragedy, as it often does. I felt a little sorry for Darryl as his role, even though it was a supporting one, didn't
give him much to do. He spent most of his time hobbling around after Mercedes. One thing I couldn't figure out was why the
Nolans had a painting of Trevelyan in their living room over the fireplace. At first I thought he might be their son, but he wasn't.
Seems strange if he was just a friend.

Myra's mugshot is really terrible. Even a serial killer deserves better than that. I just choose it as a dash of black humor, nothing
more.

Yes, I see that, your last remark there. I read her entire story. I must be old fashion and a bit fusty but I wince to see her so prominently displayed. But it's okay, I'll get a grip. She a terrible start in life with those pernicious early influences.

Does this statement make sense? She could no more help being who she was as I am being who I am or Sister Teresa being who she was. I am not a proponent of the doctrine of Determinism, no body in the sky is writing all down like a script. But I do put limits on Free Will and most interventions that are designed to divert those on a bad course to change and proceed to a good course don't work. Normal arguments from the temporal world on this question tends to blur the essential question, did we decide to be who we are? Did we make ourselves? Or we just lucky, or unlucky? Don't answer this. there should be a thread for thorny questions like this.

[Andree]

Yes, I see that, your last remark there. I read her entire story. I must be old fashion and a bit fusty but I wince to see her so prominently displayed. But it's okay, I'll get a grip. She a terrible start in life with those pernicious early influences.

Does this statement make sense? She could no more help being who she was as I am being who I am or Sister Teresa being who she was. I am not a proponent of the doctrine of Determinism, no body in the sky is writing all down like a script. But I do put limits on Free Will and most interventions that are designed to divert those on a bad course to change and proceed to a good course don't work. Normal arguments from the temporal world on this question tends to blur the essential question, did we decide to be who we are? Did we make ourselves? Or we just lucky, or unlucky? Don't answer this. there should be a thread for thorny questions like this.

As the twig is bent.....I think that a person's early upbringing does have at least some influence on how they turn out as
adults. Of course the counter argument is that many people have hard childhoods, but they don't end up being criminals.
But they can still make their own individual decisions, though perhaps we should weigh these factors as part of our
judgements. I've always thought that Brady had the main responsibility for the murders and that if Myra Hindley had
never him she wouldn't have done them on her own.

Get a grip time. I was going to use this photo as my avatar but it was too large.

[Dargo]

...One thing I couldn't figure out was why the Nolans had a painting of Trevelyan in their living room over the fireplace. At first I thought he might be their son, but he wasn't.
Seems strange if he was just a friend.

You might have missed the part where Liza (McCambridge) explains to Shelley (Roman) that Trevelyan (Todd) was orphaned as a child, and that the Nolans then took him in and treated him pretty much as their adopted son. It is then later revealed that the reason Trevelyan had been so tight-lipped about the murder was because he had once earlier walked into J.D. Nolan's business office unannouced only to discover his wife making moves on J.D. and so all the time had assumed his surrogate father had killed his wife, and thus had all the time been attempting to protect J.D. because of a sense of loyality and gratitude towards him.

(...yeah yeah, I know...this being just another of the illogical little plot points this somewhat entertaining little film contained, but in THIS case being a necessary one in order keep the running thread of the idea of if the tight-lipped Trevelyan had or hadn't killed his wife through to the very end of the film)

[laffite]

Yes, I see that, your last remark there. I read her entire story. I must be old fashion and a bit fusty but I wince to see her so prominently displayed. But it's okay, I'll get a grip. She a terrible start in life with those pernicious early influences.

Does this statement make sense? She could no more help being who she was as I am being who I am or Sister Teresa being who she was. I am not a proponent of the doctrine of Determinism, no body in the sky is writing all down like a script. But I do put limits on Free Will and most interventions that are designed to divert those on a bad course to change and proceed to a good course don't work. Normal arguments from the temporal world on this question tends to blur the essential question, did we decide to be who we are? Did we make ourselves? Or we just lucky, or unlucky? Don't answer this. there should be a thread for thorny questions like this.

As the twig is bent.....I think that a person's early upbringing does have at least some influence on how they turn out as
adults. Of course the counter argument is that many people have hard childhoods, but they don't end up being criminals.
But they can still make their own individual decisions, though perhaps we should weigh these factors as part of our
judgements. I've always thought that Brady had the main responsibility for the murders and that if Myra Hindley had
never him she wouldn't have done them on her own.

Get a grip time. I was going to use this photo as my avatar but it was too large.

Can you resize it, or crop it?

[Dargo]

STILL say, she kind'a looks like a young Peter Boyle in drag!

LOL

[Andree]

You might have missed the part where Liza (McCambridge) explains to Shelley (Roman) that Trevelyan (Todd) was orphaned as a child, and that the Nolans then took him in and treated him pretty much as their adopted son. It is then later revealed that the reason Trevelyan had been so tight-lipped about the murder was because he had once earlier walked into J.D. Nolan's business office unannouced only to discover his wife making moves on J.D. and so all the time had assumed his surrogate father had killed his wife, and thus had all the time been attempting to protect J.D. because of a sense of loyality and gratitude towards him.

(...yeah yeah, I know...this being just another of the illogical little plot points this somewhat entertaining little film contained, but in THIS case being a necessary one in order keep the running thread of the idea of if the tight-lipped Trevelyan had or hadn't killed his wife through to the very end of the film)

Thanks for the clarification. Now having that picture front and center makes sense. Maybe I was out in the kitchen for a snack
run and missed that info. And another black mark against Loraine. Why that little hussy.....

[Andree]

Can you resize it, or crop it?

I don't think I can. Years ago on the TCM forum one could do that, though it was a bit of a pain. I believe that ability went away.

We're Myra Hindley's Longley Hearts Club Band
We hope you have enjoyed the show
Myra Hindley's Lonely Hearts Club Band
We're sorry but it's time to go
Myra Hindley's Lonely, Myra Hindley's Lonley, Myra Hindley's Lonely Hearts Club band.
......Wooo