Hey guys,
Are you ready for class. I'd take roll but I'm not sure who all has signed up.
We've had a lot of fun with it over at TCM City (where the idea originated) and I hope we have as much fun here!
Anyways, I thought we would start out talking about the Iron Horse as many believe that this film, even more than James Cruze's Covered Wagon, influenced the westerns that came after it.
It was interesting to note that it is not until Ford gets out on location that he begins to really show the direction that we now associate him but even in the early scenes he uses that motif of family and sacrifice that will come to be closely associated with him in the years ahead.
What other themes did you recognize that would become Ford trademarks, if you will?
What scenes and characters do you feel influenced other screenwriters, actors and directors in the years that followed?
How did his style change between this and his next western, Stagecoach ?
Don't all answer at once! LOL!!!
But I do look forward to hearing your ideas!
You can use images to bolster your views but I do ask that we try to stay on topic as much as possible.
All lurking students out there are invited to de-lurk and join the conversation.
SSO Summer School in Session: John Ford and Westerns
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Lzcutter
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SSO Summer School in Session: John Ford and Westerns
Lynn in Lake Balboa
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
Oh Lynn !
I don't have the gift of words like you do but I am going to answer the theme part of this. I know is John Ford had a real flair for music and story telling in his movies.It seemed at times you could not have the acting and just have the music. I have not seen The Iron Horse so I cannot give any feedback on it .I might be in over my head her but I also notice he had alot of the same actors and these actors all had an amazing chemistry between all of them .They fit like gloves on each other .He had a keen eye for the shots he took very much so in The searchers and The Quiet Man ,Fort Apache man there are so many .The angle in some of these shots is amazing .I love in The Searchers the first time Nathen comes upon ward Bonds Character sitting at the table and the conversations are going around and there is talking over each other and the way the camera goes moves on that scene alone is really good and the last shot through the door when Nathen turns around to leave and there is just this back lit area on him. Lynn if I have made a fool of myself be gentle .I am just excited to learn
I don't have the gift of words like you do but I am going to answer the theme part of this. I know is John Ford had a real flair for music and story telling in his movies.It seemed at times you could not have the acting and just have the music. I have not seen The Iron Horse so I cannot give any feedback on it .I might be in over my head her but I also notice he had alot of the same actors and these actors all had an amazing chemistry between all of them .They fit like gloves on each other .He had a keen eye for the shots he took very much so in The searchers and The Quiet Man ,Fort Apache man there are so many .The angle in some of these shots is amazing .I love in The Searchers the first time Nathen comes upon ward Bonds Character sitting at the table and the conversations are going around and there is talking over each other and the way the camera goes moves on that scene alone is really good and the last shot through the door when Nathen turns around to leave and there is just this back lit area on him. Lynn if I have made a fool of myself be gentle .I am just excited to learn
Last edited by inglis on July 28th, 2008, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Lzcutter
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Carol,
There are no wrong answers in this class so don't worry. I very much liked your comments and hope you will stay with us!
There are no wrong answers in this class so don't worry. I very much liked your comments and hope you will stay with us!
Lynn in Lake Balboa
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
Lurker here...
(You may send me back to the shadows) I haven't seen Iron Horse either, but from previous discussions, and from the films of his I have seen, I think he had a passion for the land. The sand and dust of Monument Valley, the green of Ireland, all played an important role in The Searchers, Stagecoach, The Quiet Man. Another was the theme of family bond. As Carol pointed out, he used the same actors over and over again, because they "fit". And perhaps they represented family to him??? Ok, I'll shuffle back to the back now...
(You may send me back to the shadows) I haven't seen Iron Horse either, but from previous discussions, and from the films of his I have seen, I think he had a passion for the land. The sand and dust of Monument Valley, the green of Ireland, all played an important role in The Searchers, Stagecoach, The Quiet Man. Another was the theme of family bond. As Carol pointed out, he used the same actors over and over again, because they "fit". And perhaps they represented family to him??? Ok, I'll shuffle back to the back now...
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
Nancy I love your description of the land thing that was good. Keep goingknitwit45 wrote:Lurker here...
(You may send me back to the shadows) I haven't seen Iron Horse either, but from previous discussions, and from the films of his I have seen, I think he had a passion for the land. The sand and dust of Monument Valley, the green of Ireland, all played an important role in The Searchers, Stagecoach, The Quiet Man. Another was the theme of family bond. As Carol pointed out, he used the same actors over and over again, because they "fit". And perhaps they represented family to him??? Ok, I'll shuffle back to the back now...
Hi Lynn,
I'm far from an expert on John Ford's films, but of those that I've seen, I think I've enjoyed "The Quiet Man" the most. Maybe because John Wayne gives such an understated performance, so out of character with what we've come to expect from him (rough and ready, raw around the edges and ready to draw a gun at the drop of a hat.) I don't know enough about film making to know whether the camera angles that were employed were the purview of Mr Ford or of the camera man/cinematographer. Whatever the case, the film itself is strikingly beautiful and feels as realistic as anything he's ever done. The fact that he was cast with Maureen O'Hara doesn't hurt in the least. After so many movies with them playing against/together with each other, this movie, in my humble opinion, brings out the very best in both of them. Even Barry Fitzgerald, among my least favorite actors, plays his role to the proverbial "T." I wish there were more I could say from an aesthetic or technical perspective but I'm simply not qualified to do so. All I know is that I enjoyed the film tremendously and look forward to watching it each time it airs. I suspect that many others may find his Westerns (especially his "Trilogy") the high point of his filmography, but given this departure from the norm, this along with "The Long Voyage Home" are my own favorite John Ford films.
As always,
Your friend, Hollis
P.s. Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it seems that when I think of Westerns, John Ford and Howard Hawks ("Red River" come first to mind. I'll wear the dunce cap and go sit quietly in the corner now...
I'm far from an expert on John Ford's films, but of those that I've seen, I think I've enjoyed "The Quiet Man" the most. Maybe because John Wayne gives such an understated performance, so out of character with what we've come to expect from him (rough and ready, raw around the edges and ready to draw a gun at the drop of a hat.) I don't know enough about film making to know whether the camera angles that were employed were the purview of Mr Ford or of the camera man/cinematographer. Whatever the case, the film itself is strikingly beautiful and feels as realistic as anything he's ever done. The fact that he was cast with Maureen O'Hara doesn't hurt in the least. After so many movies with them playing against/together with each other, this movie, in my humble opinion, brings out the very best in both of them. Even Barry Fitzgerald, among my least favorite actors, plays his role to the proverbial "T." I wish there were more I could say from an aesthetic or technical perspective but I'm simply not qualified to do so. All I know is that I enjoyed the film tremendously and look forward to watching it each time it airs. I suspect that many others may find his Westerns (especially his "Trilogy") the high point of his filmography, but given this departure from the norm, this along with "The Long Voyage Home" are my own favorite John Ford films.
As always,
Your friend, Hollis
P.s. Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it seems that when I think of Westerns, John Ford and Howard Hawks ("Red River" come first to mind. I'll wear the dunce cap and go sit quietly in the corner now...
Hi Hollis .I think that Lynn is going to make us feel like experts by the time this class is over and we will be alot more educated about Ford .I was really nerevous to say what I thought as I don't really know alot about his film making per say but have seen alot of his movies which helps abit .I am not much for the technical stuff I just know how I feel after seeing one of his movies,CarolHollis wrote:Hi Lynn,
I'm far from an expert on John Ford's films, but of those that I've seen, I think I've enjoyed "The Quiet Man" the most. Maybe because John Wayne gives such an understated performance, so out of character with what we've come to expect from him (rough and ready, raw around the edges and ready to draw a gun at the drop of a hat.) I don't know enough about film making to know whether the camera angles that were employed were the purview of Mr Ford or of the camera man/cinematographer. Whatever the case, the film itself is strikingly beautiful and feels as realistic as anything he's ever done. The fact that he was cast with Maureen O'Hara doesn't hurt in the least. After so many movies with them playing against/together with each other, this movie, in my humble opinion, brings out the very best in both of them. Even Barry Fitzgerald, among my least favorite actors, plays his role to the proverbial "T." I wish there were more I could say from an aesthetic or technical perspective but I'm simply not qualified to do so. All I know is that I enjoyed the film tremendously and look forward to watching it each time it airs. I suspect that many others may find his Westerns (especially his "Trilogy") the high point of his filmography, but given this departure from the norm, this along with "The Long Voyage Home" are my own favorite John Ford films.
As always,
Your friend, Hollis
P.s. Sorry to go off on a tangent, but it seems that when I think of Westerns, John Ford and Howard Hawks ("Red River" come first to mind. I'll wear the dunce cap and go sit quietly in the corner now...
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jdb1
This seminar has gotten off to an interesting start, but I'd like to hear more specifics from Lynn, and those of you who know and admire Ford.
To tell you the truth, Westerns are not my favorite genre, and in fact I don't really care for most Ford movies. I do like The Searchers, but not much else. I recognize the scope and skill of Ford's output -- however, I generally feel indifferent to the finished products, and there are few of his movies that I dislike and avoid. I'm interested to hear what it is about Ford that you think makes him a great director.
(Unfortunately, I have not seen the majority of his output, for the reasons stated above. At least, not in entirety -- it's likely I started to watch a great many of them, but gave up because they didn't speak to me.)
To tell you the truth, Westerns are not my favorite genre, and in fact I don't really care for most Ford movies. I do like The Searchers, but not much else. I recognize the scope and skill of Ford's output -- however, I generally feel indifferent to the finished products, and there are few of his movies that I dislike and avoid. I'm interested to hear what it is about Ford that you think makes him a great director.
(Unfortunately, I have not seen the majority of his output, for the reasons stated above. At least, not in entirety -- it's likely I started to watch a great many of them, but gave up because they didn't speak to me.)
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movieman1957
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Judith:
As good as his westerns are I think he also makes his mark in some dramas. I think "How Green Was My Valley" is a great film. I think he makes a good deal out of what is really the events in a family. Here, and in subsequent films family is a huge part of the story. (Even the Cavalry is considered family in the westerns.)
Tradition is also a big part of "Valley." There is an order to the way the family and the town operates. Deviation is trouble and I think he does a fine job in building then tension on those traditions starting to crack under the weight of the youn people in the movie. Films like this on "Young Abe Lincoln", "The Long Voyage Home" and "They Were Expendable" are best choices in nonwestern films. "Wagon Master" is a fine non-Wayne western on a smaller scale.
I think he was able to get terrific performances out of Wayne. Maybe better than anyone else, though Hawks' "Red River" may have opened up Ford's eyes more.
At times a lot is made of the humor in his films. Sometimes there is too much. I think of "Cheyenne Autumn" which is a lovely film but Jimmy Stewart's part is really all about fun and frankly I think it ruins the middle of the picture.
All in all he tells a good story. More often than not gets good performances. Maybe there is a Ford personna to movies based on the cast and crew and just the way they feel. He made a few dogs but I overall he has good solid work.
Not sure if I gave any help but I hope that helps a little.
As good as his westerns are I think he also makes his mark in some dramas. I think "How Green Was My Valley" is a great film. I think he makes a good deal out of what is really the events in a family. Here, and in subsequent films family is a huge part of the story. (Even the Cavalry is considered family in the westerns.)
Tradition is also a big part of "Valley." There is an order to the way the family and the town operates. Deviation is trouble and I think he does a fine job in building then tension on those traditions starting to crack under the weight of the youn people in the movie. Films like this on "Young Abe Lincoln", "The Long Voyage Home" and "They Were Expendable" are best choices in nonwestern films. "Wagon Master" is a fine non-Wayne western on a smaller scale.
I think he was able to get terrific performances out of Wayne. Maybe better than anyone else, though Hawks' "Red River" may have opened up Ford's eyes more.
At times a lot is made of the humor in his films. Sometimes there is too much. I think of "Cheyenne Autumn" which is a lovely film but Jimmy Stewart's part is really all about fun and frankly I think it ruins the middle of the picture.
All in all he tells a good story. More often than not gets good performances. Maybe there is a Ford personna to movies based on the cast and crew and just the way they feel. He made a few dogs but I overall he has good solid work.
Not sure if I gave any help but I hope that helps a little.
Chris
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana."
Judith pretty much took the words right out of my mouth with:
I am quietly sitting in the front row, pen poised over paper, anxiously awaiting...because I know it's (contraction of "it is") something I'm missing given that Orson said, "John Ford, John Ford, John Ford."
I do enjoy Westerns, but the only Ford Westerns that I haven't fidgeted through are THE SEARCHERS, THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE and THE FUGITIVE (does that count as a Western?).This seminar has gotten off to an interesting start, but I'd like to hear more specifics from Lynn, and those of you who know and admire Ford.
To tell you the truth, Westerns are not my favorite genre, and in fact I don't really care for most Ford movies. I do like The Searchers, but not much else. I recognize the scope and skill of Ford's output -- however, I generally feel indifferent to the finished products, and there are few of his movies that I dislike and avoid. I'm interested to hear what it is about Ford that you think makes him a great director.
(Unfortunately, I have not seen the majority of his output, for the reasons stated above. At least, not in entirety -- it's likely I started to watch a great many of them, but gave up because they didn't speak to me.)
I am quietly sitting in the front row, pen poised over paper, anxiously awaiting...because I know it's (contraction of "it is") something I'm missing given that Orson said, "John Ford, John Ford, John Ford."
Everyday people...that's what's wrong with the world. -- Morgan Morgan
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
I love movies. But don't get me wrong. I hate Hollywood. -- Orson Welles
Movies can only go forward in spite of the motion picture industry. -- Orson Welles
Hey guys, Teacher Lynn may be a little late, sounds like Southern Cal was hit by a pretty good earthquake! Hope she is ok, and lets us know how she is, soon!!!!!!
"Life is not the way it's supposed to be.. It's the way it is..
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
The way we cope with it, is what makes the difference." ~ Virginia Satir
""Most people pursue pleasure with such breathless haste that they hurry past it." ~ Soren Kierkegaard
Hi everyone!
I'm another one who has never seen the Iron Horse, but you know me and silents. Although I'm Italian and Polish by nationalities, I love the Irish theme that runs through so many of Fords' movies. It may not be mentioned, or even noted in the story or dialog, but the old rapscallion got his heritage in there by hook or crook, and he did it almost without notice. He didn't necessarily name his main characters with Irish, sometimes they were Scot instead, but he usually got a fairly good sized supporting part named McQuin, or O'Riley or any other name like those. One last thing is his music. As everyone has said, his use of it is a treasure, but so much of it is repeated in different movies, when I see a western and hear one of his familiar background songs, I scramble to see if he is the director, and many times he is.
Anne
I'm another one who has never seen the Iron Horse, but you know me and silents. Although I'm Italian and Polish by nationalities, I love the Irish theme that runs through so many of Fords' movies. It may not be mentioned, or even noted in the story or dialog, but the old rapscallion got his heritage in there by hook or crook, and he did it almost without notice. He didn't necessarily name his main characters with Irish, sometimes they were Scot instead, but he usually got a fairly good sized supporting part named McQuin, or O'Riley or any other name like those. One last thing is his music. As everyone has said, his use of it is a treasure, but so much of it is repeated in different movies, when I see a western and hear one of his familiar background songs, I scramble to see if he is the director, and many times he is.
Anne
Anne
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charliechaplinfan
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I'm here to learn too.
I can't say I'm a big fan of John Ford or John Wayne. What I have seen Stagecoach I thought was very good. The Quiet Man is excellent, The Grapes of Wrath very good and How Green Was My Valley was disappointing.
It is the western genre that keeps me away and John Wayne who isn't my favorite actor.
I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd like to see the creme de la creme of Westerns so I'm looking forward to learning more about John Ford.
I intend to watch The Searchers one of these days. It has come highly recommended on this board.
I can't say I'm a big fan of John Ford or John Wayne. What I have seen Stagecoach I thought was very good. The Quiet Man is excellent, The Grapes of Wrath very good and How Green Was My Valley was disappointing.
It is the western genre that keeps me away and John Wayne who isn't my favorite actor.
I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd like to see the creme de la creme of Westerns so I'm looking forward to learning more about John Ford.
I intend to watch The Searchers one of these days. It has come highly recommended on this board.
Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself - Charlie Chaplin
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Lzcutter
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Hey guys,
Just a quick note to let everyone know we are a-okay out here in Earthquake land.
I'll be chiming in a bit more on the Iron Horse a bit later, have to go ice my knee after PT!
I'll be back!
Just a quick note to let everyone know we are a-okay out here in Earthquake land.
I'll be chiming in a bit more on the Iron Horse a bit later, have to go ice my knee after PT!
I'll be back!
Lynn in Lake Balboa
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower
"Film is history. With every foot of film lost, we lose a link to our culture, to the world around us, to each other and to ourselves."
"For me, John Wayne has only become more impressive over time." Marty Scorsese
Avatar-Warner Bros Water Tower